tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post8900400392963835054..comments2024-03-28T07:00:12.226-04:00Comments on Romance Novels for Feminists: Rejecting the Horror of Sex: Charlotte Stein's INTRUSIONJackie C. Hornehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04146684628443152376noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-5492354742727904362024-01-15T14:48:25.838-05:002024-01-15T14:48:25.838-05:00This is a really very informative article, there i...This is a really very informative article, there is no doubt about it. Totopick Prohttps://www.hosteltur.com/comunidad/usuario/totopickpro2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-55732446548615114632024-01-15T14:47:36.331-05:002024-01-15T14:47:36.331-05:00I love all of the points you have made.
I love all of the points you have made.<br />Majortotosite Tophttps://www.hosteltur.com/comunidad/usuario/majortotositetop2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-4971649327166493332014-12-08T20:17:26.731-05:002014-12-08T20:17:26.731-05:00I thought you and your readers might find SBTB'...I thought you and your readers might find <a href="http://smartbitchestrashybooks.com/reviews/intrusion-by-charlotte-stein/" rel="nofollow">SBTB's entirely different reaction to this book</a> of interest. <br /><br />-lawless523Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14187860051812060040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-77537912739323923102014-12-08T20:14:41.337-05:002014-12-08T20:14:41.337-05:00Whenever anyone pulls out psychoanalysis, especial...Whenever anyone pulls out psychoanalysis, especially the Oedipus complex and penis envy, as an explanation for anything, my eyes glaze over. So many of Freud's theories that can be tested objectively have been disproven (think of his characterization of clitoral vs. vaginal orgasms when there almost certainly is no such thing as a vaginal orgasms -- the g spot, if it's not part of the internal clitoris (which is what I suspect it will turn out to be), is also not part of the vagina either) and so much of the rest is supposition of the sort that wouldn't pass muster in the social sciences today, let alone a psych lab, that I don't know why anyone, even a film critic/theorist, uses it as a starting point for analysis anymore. <br /><br />-lawless523Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14187860051812060040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-49907507105030618842014-12-04T20:07:48.657-05:002014-12-04T20:07:48.657-05:00Totaro thinks it is; I'm not so sure, myself. ...Totaro thinks it is; I'm not so sure, myself. I was more interested by his account of Carol Clover's MEN, WOMEN, AND CHAINSAWS: GENDER IN THE MODERN HORROR FILM:<br /><br />"In psychoanalytical terms, sadism is post-Oedipal, meaning that it takes shape when identification shifts from the mother to the father. Masochism, deriving pleasure from one’s own pain or submission, is pre-Oedipal and takes place when the mother is all powerful and is the source of the child’s identification (from the womb to the breast). In the pre-Oedipal stage the child takes pleasure in this pure submission to the mother.... When turning this over to the horror film, as in the traditional slasher film, the spectator assumes a submissive position whenever they identify with the female victim, and more importantly, the female heroine (the Final Girl)."Jackie C. Hornehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04146684628443152376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-91913503169385385352014-12-04T20:02:36.630-05:002014-12-04T20:02:36.630-05:00Just picked up Megan Hart's latest--am looking...Just picked up Megan Hart's latest--am looking forward to reading it! <br /><br />And thanks for the other recs. I've always shied away from Stephen King, but maybe something nonfiction than fiction would be fun...Jackie C. Hornehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04146684628443152376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-61104465219555420932014-12-04T19:15:43.026-05:002014-12-04T19:15:43.026-05:00Is that really a feminist improvement, though? It ...Is that really a feminist improvement, though? It seems to me just the other side of the same coin as women who are killed because they're sexually active. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-11251926995033488902014-12-04T19:04:42.586-05:002014-12-04T19:04:42.586-05:00Megan Hart is more to my liking than Stein when it...Megan Hart is more to my liking than Stein when it comes to erotic romance. I think what Stein writes is closer to straight out erotica than erotic romance, actually. <br /><br />It's not an academic study, and as far as I remember it doesn't deal with violence against women much if at all, but you might find Stephen King's DANSE MACABRE -- about the horror genre in popular media, both visual (film and TV) and written form -- interesting. Jackson's THE HAUNTING OF HILL HOUSE and the first movie version is analyzed and praised at length, as is Anne River Siddons' THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR.<br /><br />Jackson's other full-length novel, WE HAVE ALWAYS LIVED IN THE CASTLE, isn't a ghost story the way HILL HOUSE is; it's somewhere between a psychological thriller and psychological horror. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-54111170508616875572014-12-03T20:13:58.608-05:002014-12-03T20:13:58.608-05:00Thanks, Sara, for the recommendation.
The Donato ...Thanks, Sara, for the recommendation.<br /><br />The Donato Totaro article I link to above argues that European horror films are significantly different in the way they portray female sexuality. More often, sexual women are the horror, the monsters who kill men....Jackie C. Hornehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04146684628443152376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-75030095440636601012014-12-03T20:11:48.878-05:002014-12-03T20:11:48.878-05:00Yes, Stein is a writer who truly has her own voice...Yes, Stein is a writer who truly has her own voice, and insists on working outside/critiquing the boundaries of romance. I completely agree with your take on INTRUSION.Jackie C. Hornehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04146684628443152376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-48733622599298130622014-12-03T20:10:34.108-05:002014-12-03T20:10:34.108-05:00You're very welcome, Madeline. I think you'...You're very welcome, Madeline. I think you'll enjoy the new book immensely.Jackie C. Hornehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04146684628443152376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-17055140029488601842014-12-03T20:10:09.777-05:002014-12-03T20:10:09.777-05:00Hi, Lawless:
So interesting to hear the take of s...Hi, Lawless:<br /><br />So interesting to hear the take of someone who accounts herself a fan of horror. Thanks for chiming in.<br /><br />I've heard the argument you're making—that horror expresses justified fears women have, but can't/aren't allowed to express more directly, via more realistic genres—applied to 18th c Gothic literature, but not to horror lit. So now I'm wondering where the line is between Gothic, fantasy, and horror. Perhaps if I had specified 20th century horror movies, rather than horror in general, my point would be more valid?<br /><br />I wouldn't have placed Shirley Jackson in the horror category, more in the creepy/scary/eerie fantastic (I was in a play version of THE LOTTERY in high school, and am still rather creeped out by the story to this day). Love BUFFY, though, perhaps because it is a comedy, rather than straight horror.<br /><br />Look forward to hearing your thoughts about the Stein story...<br /><br /><br /><br />Jackie C. Hornehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04146684628443152376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-36366999691231957092014-12-03T12:09:59.037-05:002014-12-03T12:09:59.037-05:00I think while the formula for horror has often bee...I think while the formula for horror has often been the virginal girl beats the villain, it's changing. I'm excited to see how women's roles in horror are changing. My favorite, so far, is the movie You're Next. It's gruesome but the female lead is so amazing. I can't recommend the movie enough. Maybe it's not a great movie all together but her character is wonderful. I can't wait to see more like her. I think just like romance - you have to search for the feminist characters in horror. There are a lot of women who write and create horror stories. As they gain footage, the stories change. Women are allowed to be fighters and heroes now where they weren't as accepted before.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09398802177166008567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-45285149721686250142014-12-03T09:19:51.948-05:002014-12-03T09:19:51.948-05:00I am a huge fan of Charlotte Stein. She writes rom...I am a huge fan of Charlotte Stein. She writes romantic erotica that is truly erotic, and furthermore, takes romantic tropes and plays around with them. I like that some of her stories make me feel uncomfortable, and take me out of the comfort zone many romance novels travel so predictably. I find Stein to be a talented writer. Her prose can sometimes wander about, but always comes back to its point of departure. Intrusion was suspenseful, romantic, and erotic in a smart way. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-4058132476379858772014-12-03T09:10:03.110-05:002014-12-03T09:10:03.110-05:00This books sounds FANTASTIC!!! I already worship C...This books sounds FANTASTIC!!! I already worship Charlotte Stein, and I'd heard she had a new book out with some kind of sleep walking motif. I must get my hands on this book right now! Thanks for another awesome post, btw. :) madeline ivahttp://www.madelineiva.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-630346294397505634.post-87990965392083690792014-12-02T21:42:25.026-05:002014-12-02T21:42:25.026-05:00As someone for whom Thomas Harris' RED DRAGON ...As someone for whom Thomas Harris' RED DRAGON -- the book that introduced Hannibal Lecter to the world -- was a revelation (though it was more how Harris made me sympathize with Francis Dolarhyde, the serial killer the FBI was after, and wish his life had turned out differently that impressed me), who watches all manner of creepy procedurals, including Criminal Minds, and who thinks Shirley Jackson's writing, most of which falls into the horror category, is among the best there is (THE HAUNTING OF HILL HOUSE especially), I come at this from an entirely different starting point than you do. <br /><br />Yes, much of horror, especially films and TV, which I'd argue operate under greater constraints than books due to the prevalence of male gaze in visual arts, exploits women. But how much of that is titillation and how much a reflection of real and justified fears? Certainly recent events -- the light shown on university's indifference toward sexual assault as demonstrated by the recent article in Rolling Stone and the ongoing protest by a student at Columbia University that the student she's named as her rapist hasn't been expelled, the many accusations leveled at comedian Bill Cosby -- demonstrate how well-founded women's fear of male violence is. <br /><br />I think it's a mistake to characterize the horror genre as inherently patriarchal; it, like most other genres, reflects the world it's written about. Otherwise you might as well call all fiction -- particularly realistic fiction -- patriarchal too. Besides. one of the most consciously feminist films and TV shows in recent memory -- Buffy the Vampire Slayer -- sprang from the horror genre but was created to turn a common trope (the pretty blonde girl who is trapped and killed early on) on its head. <br /><br />That said, you've intrigued me. I've read several books by Stein, and while she's a talented writer, I've generally felt vaguely dissatisfied and unnerved when I finish a book of hers. I don't know if it's something she's doing or not doing that bothers me. Perhaps I'll find this book, which is meant to be unnerving in the first place, more satisfying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com